They Have Always Lived on the Outskirts

In the first full episode Evelyn and Lucy talk about the places where Witches (real, fictional, mythic & iconic) and Dicks (Private Eyes, Murder Mysteries, Detectives) overlap-- The Venn Diagram of where the Small “m” mystery of Hercule Poirot intersects with the Big “M” mystery of Witches & the supernatural. Recorded Jun 30 '21

Evelyn Archer: books and tarot readings:  askevelynarcher.com  @evelynarches on IG & Twitter
Lucy Neptune IG: @lucyneptunewnd
Card of the week: The Fool Card

Stuff we talked about:

STRANGE CREATURES by Phoebe North 

CHILLING ADVENTURES OF SABRINA (graphic novel) by Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa 

CHILLING ADVENTURES OF SABRINA (novels), by Sarah Rees Brennan

Fringe TV show

Why Didn’t They Ask Evans and And Then There Were None, by Agatha Christie

CHINATOWN, (directed by rapist Roman Polanski) on Hulu Premium

BLANCHE ON THE LAM, by Barbara Neely

Theseus & the Minotaur

Clew

The Maltese Falcon on HBO Max

Wicked Witch of the West played by Margaret Hamilton, Wizard of Oz on HBO Max

 The Big Sleep, on many platforms

Three Pines/Insp Gamache by Louise Penny

Nick & Nora Charles, Hart to Hart, Agatha Christie Pair is Tommy and Tuppence

Hercule Poirot: the first cases (by Microids, on Steam)

Nancy Drew Games by Her Interactive

WITCH OF THE WEEK: SIMONE BILES  and RAVEN SAUNDERS  (She won Silver, here is her statement on her X Gesture

Bindlestiff Family Circus

Logo by Alex Zapata
Music by Prettysleepy on Pixabay
Transcript by Otter AI
Public Library Association

Transcript

EPISODE-ONE: They Have Always Lived on the Outskirts

TRANSCRIPTION BY OTTER AI. 100% ACCURACY NOT GUARANTEED. EMAIL witchesanddicks@gmail.com

Wed, 10/27 7:31PM • 1:05:14

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, sam spade, witches, detective, thinking, cops, karen, absolutely, maltese falcon, evelyn, read, iconography, witch, story, talking, big, week, real, jessica fletcher, witchcraft

SPEAKERS

Evelyn Archer, Lucy Neptune

Lucy Neptune  00:01

There's something a bit supernatural about detectives.

Evelyn Archer  00:04

 And there's a bit of the private dick in a witch.

Lucy Neptune  00:06

Veronica Mars removes hexes.

Evelyn Archer  00:08

Willow Rosenberg solves crimes.

Lucy Neptune  00:10

I'm Lucy Neptune.

Evelyn Archer  00:11

I'm Evelyn Archer.

Lucy Neptune  00:12

We're coming to you live to tape from unceded Narragansett and Wampanoag land.

Evelyn Archer  00:17 And we're here to have a little chinwag about witches, private dicks, and the place where the "Little m" mystery meets up with the "Big M" Mystery. This is Witches and Dicks.

Lucy Neptune  00:01

[sings] Pop. Pop. Pop filter. Hi my friend. 

Evelyn Archer  00:09

Hi, my friend. 

Lucy Neptune  00:10

I'm so happy to see you, Evelyn Archer

Evelyn Archer  00:12

I'm so happy to see you, Lucy Neptune. How are you this evening? 

Lucy Neptune  00:16

I am pretty good. I'm pretty good. A lot has been happening in the world. There's so many things percolating in my mind to talk about. 

Evelyn Archer  00:26

Oh, that's great. Are we recording? 

Lucy Neptune  00:27

We are recording. Um, I have a funny, interesting story of the times to share with you. 

Evelyn Archer  00:34

Let's do it. Oh, just a reminder that Lucy Neptune and Evelyn Archer, this is Witches and Dicks, we're coming to you live from unseded Wampanoag and Narragansett land here in Providence, Rhode Island. 

Lucy Neptune  00:45

Hello. So this is a story involving the word Karen. And I, for our listeners, am 53, a white lady.  I was taking a walk around my neighborhood. And I was in the first like block and a half of my walk. So I'm like zoning out, flopping along, doing my thing and I kind of ... And I see a cute little girl up ahead of me. And she's probably 8, 7 around there on her kick scooter. And she's kind of just standing at the edge of the block. It's just kind of watching me like how kids kind of just stare at people like...

Evelyn Archer  01:26

Terrifying. Absolutely terrifying.

Lucy Neptune  01:28

Yeah, and I'm like, oh, there's this girl. Okay. ...And she kind of says hi or something. And like, I smile at her and wave. And she says, "I said, Hi, Karen." I was like, "You...what?" She's like "I said, Hi, Karen." I'm like, "You called me a Karen?" She said, "I said, Hi, Karen." She repeats it!

Evelyn Archer  01:48

Was she a little white girl?

Lucy Neptune  01:49

No, she's brown, brownish? I don't know. 

Evelyn Archer  01:52

Okay, like if she was a little white girl  I would be enraged. I would be like "Wait a minute."

Lucy Neptune  01:57

No, no. And so 1000 things went through my head and once. First of all, I was like, "She's got moxie." Like, that's so great that she's like, okay, Karen. Like she's frickin ready. Right?

Evelyn Archer  02:12

She was spoiling for a fight. 

Lucy Neptune  02:14

She was ready. She's like, I see this lady come in, and I'm fucking ready for her on my kick scooter. And my little pink...  no, it was purple, like a sun dress kind of thing. Probably wearing jelly crocs for all I know.

Evelyn Archer  02:25

Oh, my God. 

Lucy Neptune  02:26

And so yeah. So that's the first thing the second thing is like, I'm not a Karen. I didn't do anything. I didn't do anything to be a Karen. However, I realized in that flash oh my god, I look like a Karen. I am absolutely a potential Karen. 

Evelyn Archer  02:43

And the thing is, in a way this is... We're going to get very Jacques Lacan here for a second. But like,  none of us white ladies of a certain age can say we're not Karen. 

Lucy Neptune  02:57

Right? 

Evelyn Archer  02:58

Because by saying I'm not Karen, you're pointing to your own Karenness. 

Lucy Neptune  03:04

Exactly. Exactly. I wasn't doing a Karen behavior. 

Evelyn Archer  03:09

You weren't going full on that moment. Like you weren't gonna make it to Tik Tok on a video.

Lucy Neptune  03:13

No, I wasn't calling the cops on her for being on you know, yeah, nothing. However, I absolutely 100% look like a Karen. And, and so and she knows that, which is very good that she knows. But I also...

Evelyn Archer  03:27

She doesn't know that you're not a Karen.  

Lucy Neptune  03:31

Because I haven't, but I could well be. 

Evelyn Archer  03:33

Yeah. As far as and that actually reminds me of, you know, it's it's not the same but it kind of there's a "not all men" aspect to that. 

Lucy Neptune  03:43

Right. Right. 

Evelyn Archer  03:43

It's like, well, maybe you're not a sexual assault-y rapist. But I don't know that. 

Lucy Neptune  03:51

Right. 

Evelyn Archer  03:51

When you're coming up to me at the bus stop and asking me what time it is? I don't know what your agenda is. I just seeing, you know, honestly, a white dude. And I am scared of white dudes. And it's, it's the same exact thing. It's like, that little girl doesn't know that you're not fixing to call the cops on her. Like, that is a thing that happens. 

Lucy Neptune  04:16

It's a thing and and I need to be... acknowledge and be responsible for my Karen appearance when I walk through my neighborhood, anybody's neighborhood and you know, just know that I carry that. And so I you know, another thought I had was like, "Oh, I want to explain myself." You know, but, but I also knew don't do that. If you walk towards her and tell her she's wrong, then you're a Karen. 

Evelyn Archer  04:45

Then you become a Karen.

Lucy Neptune  04:46

You just take it. You just take it and you getting owned by an eight year old on a kick scooter. 

Evelyn Archer  04:53

I think There you go. But I do think this is something that I have learned from just  from like paying attention to Black Twitter and like paying attention to like,  these like Black women on Instagram that are actually, you know, making a lot of sense. And you know, the thing is, it's like, what? As like a white lady, there's that when you start to hear about something like that there's that moment where you're like, ooo, eee, that stings, that is a little uncomfortable. And the instinct, right is to be like, ah, ah, ah, not me, I'm not... But the thing that we actually have to learn to do is to be mindful in that moment, and just sit in those weird feelings. Just sit in them. Just sit in them. Like it's, we will do more good. And do more to dismantle a white supremacist system by sitting with those uncomfortable feelings and kind of retraining ourselves to not react. Right? Because you don't know like, what kind of encounters that little girl had had that day.

Lucy Neptune  04:54

Will you pass me my tea?

Evelyn Archer  06:05

No, or that  her family has had or--and all her fears are legitimate. Absolutely. And you know what? Good for you. On your kickscooter with your purple sundress is to be like "I said, Hello, Karen." Yes, spoiling for a fight. Man. I feel you. I think we need more of that energy. Yeah,

Lucy Neptune  06:35

Yeah. For real. To be honest. I was a little afraid because it also triggered my seven year old girl who was like, "Oh, God, someone doesn't like me. And I got I don't know what to do."  And I'm just, you know, so there was that and so part of me is like, I just like I kind of just kept going. And I said to her, like kind of with a smile, like hoping to sound jokey in the moment, because I had like, one, two seconds to think.  I was like, You don't know me! And then I kept going, I'm like, and then I obsessed about it for days after

Evelyn Archer  07:03

Oh my god. Yea, I think that's an okay response. I think that's an okay, if "You don't know me," like you're on the Maury Povich show. You don't know me? You don't know me. And then to keep walking.

Lucy Neptune  07:16

Yeah, I did not go towards her. I did not. I did not correct her.

Evelyn Archer  07:18

 That's the thing to do that raised her not? No, it's not. Yes,

Lucy Neptune  07:21

I guess I did kind of correct her. Yeah. But hopefully in a friendly way. And I can't wait to see her again and see if she sees me is also like, Hi, Karen. Hi, Karen.

Evelyn Archer  07:31

Yeah. You had a little adventure, Nancy. Yeah, Lucy. Sorry.

Lucy Neptune  07:36

Okay. That's okay. You guys understand? 

Evelyn Archer  07:38

You understand?

Lucy Neptune  07:41

So it was really, it was very interesting. Yeah. So But ultimately, I'm so glad for her that she's Yeah, she has her voice. Yeah. She has her voice and her kickscooter. And I kind of wanted a kick scooter at that moment. So that's Yeah. 

Evelyn Archer  07:55

Yeah, to be, you know, full disclosure, I was telling Lucy earlier over our delicious chicken wings. I am a little bit low energy, I expended a great deal of energy, this last week doing more social things than I ever, ever want to do. But I wanted to do them because these are people that haven't seen in a while, of course, but I am super duper drained from that. But I did actually finish a really great book that I wanted to shout out. It's Strange Creatures by Phoebe North. This is a really, really good book. I was actually it's classified as YA and the main protagonists are, you know, they start is teens. I don't know it feels more epic than YA anyway. What I will say about Strange Creatures by Pheobe North, go buy it, it's fantastic. And this is the kind of story that I normally would bounce off of, because if you have like a kind of a fantasy situation, where one of the questions is, is the magic real? Or is it just in their imagination? I am usually so done. I'm like, I'm so bored. And that's the question at this. Is this real? Or is it their imagination? And I was absolutely fucking riveted. And listen on Monday. I started reading this book in bed when I woke up at like, nine--

Lucy Neptune  09:21

Can you slide our droid over to me, please? Thank you.

Evelyn Archer  09:25

I started reading this book when I woke up at like 830, 8 or 830. And I read in bed until Alan left for work. And then I put on my house coat and I went outside and I drank my coffee. And I read some more and then I made a smoothie and I went back outside and I read some more and I read until that book was done.  At like 10:45 in the morning. It was like the last third of that book was just like chooga chooga chooga chooga couldn't stop reading it and highly recommend it. Phoebe North is also great follow on Instagram. We'll have link in the show notes to where you can find but that is my good thing that happened this week. Strange Creatures by Phoebe North. Yeah, it's really good.

Lucy Neptune  10:08

Good to know. I went to the library and got out a graphic novel version of Sabrina the Teenage Witch can't wait to look at that.

Evelyn Archer  10:16

Oh, hey, I think that actually might be by Sarah Reese Brennan might be the writer on that. I don't have I don't remember she did the Oh, the I don't know. She did the graphic novel. I think she did novelizations. Like, some IP work for them. Sarah Reese Brennan is a great author. But what you should know and you may not know is that that's not a graphic novel version of Sabrina on Netflix. Sabrina on Netflix is an adaptation of the graphic novel, yeah. Graphic Novel.

Lucy Neptune  10:45

I do know that. 

Evelyn Archer  10:45

Just wanted to be it like that. Carts and horses Yeah. Absolutely.And those are great.

Lucy Neptune  10:53

Yeah, it was really good. 

Evelyn Archer  10:55

I like those a lot. I like her too. And we're still binge watching Fringe.

Lucy Neptune  11:00

Ooh, yeah.

Evelyn Archer  11:01

It's, it is weird. It's, there's some questions like, about there...There are definitely some questions of consent going on in the complex nature of what happens when you do things without people's consent, like, not in like a sexual assault-ey type of way. But like, who gets to give consent. Do children get to give consent to certain things? Do old people get to give consent?  Do the mentally ill gives give consent? Like, it's not a huge thing, but it's something that I'm picking up on? That would be, I think, in a writers room today, as opposed to like-- this was 10 years ago--I think that that would have been handled with a lot more sensitivity and nuance. Yeah, but it's still...

Lucy Neptune  11:50

Really good.  Cool.

Evelyn Archer  11:54

So what's on the docket? Today,

Lucy Neptune  11:56

Our subject today is to talk about what is this podcast?

Evelyn Archer  12:02

What is this podcast? Welcome

Lucy Neptune  12:05

To witches and dicks. Welcome to witches and dicks. Witches and dicks, the title leapt to mind. Besides, I said to myself, you know, I miss Evelyn, I want to do something with my friend Evelyn. What should we do? What what do we like to do we like to talk about? Well, I love to hear I want to talk about witches and private detectives. And I was like, witches and dicks. That's our that's our podcast title.

Evelyn Archer  12:29

And I believe that your your first inspiration was the Washington Post. Oh, yes. Yeah. And we have an episode of The Washington Post. Brackett probably coming up. I don't know if this is going to air. But that was seeing Sherlock Holmes up against Nancy Drew it you know, spoiler alert, that was just the thumbnail was really fine. But thinking about those two detectives going head to head sorry. (Cat meow) Sorry, hat's um, Irene Adler, master of disguise making her appearance

Lucy Neptune  12:59

She's making her cameo, her cateo. Oh, yes. My love. Come up. Come in. She's poking me. 

Evelyn Archer  13:05

"Excuse me miss. Excuse me."

Lucy Neptune  13:08

I like you very much. Go sit on the purses.

Evelyn Archer  13:12

She is weird. But that was the impetus. Yeah. And the more I think about it, right, it seems like it's going to be an opposite thing. Right?

Lucy Neptune  13:22

Right. It's like different worlds different well,

Evelyn Archer  13:25

But there's there's a juxtaposition there between like the private eyes, private detective, and witchcraft because the private eye this is all about reason and logic, right. Facts. Probable provable concrete thing and witchcraft is really seems to be more about intuition and sometimes chaos. But I think that there's this there are a couple of places where these things intersect that are really interesting.

Lucy Neptune  13:50

You should know that Evelyn just drew a Venn diagram with her fingers in the air.

Evelyn Archer  13:53

Yes you know, this is clearly a visual medium of podcasting. I'm like drawing a big Venn diagram in the air. And there are these places where the what we've what I've started thinking of is the big "M" mystery of the universe touches with a small "m" mystery of the private detective. And like, for example, like I think that the small m mystery of you know, Why Didn't They Ask Evans or you know, And Then There Were None is, you know, who killed the terrible tyrannical billionaire seems to be a kind of small version of the big mysteries of the universe, like the things that are knowable and unknown. And I do think that private detectives especially detecting in, not in real life, I think in real life, it's something else, but in fiction detecting is something of a magic power, where what you're very in tune with the world that you're in with your environment, the way that a witch is and you're also imposing-- much of witchcraft is about figuring out your will and imposing your will in certain ways. And that's really what a detective is doing. And also both are working for the collective good. 

Lucy Neptune  15:12

Usually, right?

Evelyn Archer  15:14

No, yeah, they really are working for the collective good.

Lucy Neptune  15:16

But if we have we have evil witches. Well, I mean, that's a loaded term

Evelyn Archer  15:23

That is a loaded term, and I don't think we really have evil witches.

Lucy Neptune  15:26

I think that, I mean, there are people who do want to destroy other people in you know, if they can, but I think

Evelyn Archer  15:36

They aren't witches. They're not witches, like, think of like an evil witch, like the Evil Stepmother and Snow White. Right? Think who's telling that story? Okay. What this woman is, is she's second wife. She's older. Maybe she's an aging beauty queen. She's bought she's drunk that bullshit patriarchal kool aid that this is all that she's worth. What if that's not really how the story went down? What if there was no Huntsman? What if there was no heart in a box? What if it was just some spoiled child mad that her father remarried? And tells the story like that? Because there is a way for me to look at the wicked stepmother. As I am also an Ursula apologist. From the Little Mermaid? Like no, listen, you don't even have to dig deep. Ursula made a deal with you Ariel. Okay. She didn't go back on a deal. She didn't sneak around.  She told you exactly what would happen. How does that make her the bad guy? Right? Explain it to me. But I do think that it's something that happens with, you know, people who are practicing witches, people who talk about witchcraft in the real world, that we are all working for the collective good, the good of the collective, not for the good of you as an individual. Like, that's not good witchcraft. That's not good, witchcraft. Like, you have to be working for the good of the collective. And in a way, that's what Hercule Poirot is doing. That's absolutely what Jessica Fletcher is doing.

Lucy Neptune  17:06

I was reading an article, I can't remember the article. They were talking about the that detectives often have personal codes of conduct.. And so that I think, yeah, I think that's another place of overlap for them. Like, this is what I will do. This is what I won't do.  And this what I can do and what I won't do. Which is yeah, that's that's, that's the thing that I think about in terms of their overlap is they're often outsider figures.

Evelyn Archer  17:36

 I was just that that's also something I was thinking about is that they're outsider figures like, Now, I think that there's a maybe an argument to be made for like, well, if you're talking about police detective, they're really an insider. That very well may be true. I don't read a lot of mysteries have cops in them. And the mysteries I read that have cops in them? These cops are outliers. Um, I read a lot of stuff with a lot of PIs were ex cops, yes, because they could not function inside the corruption of an inherently poisonous system. And so they had to go private, they had to go rogue. And the witches have their have always lived on the outskirts are always outliers. And, and it is also like, your special ability that you can do, like, you know, herbs or you know how to use a poppet or you know, how to dead people will come to you for help. The same way that the dame walks into Sam Spade's Office, looking for some help. Yeah, and it's not unusual to find the questions to be very, very similar,

Lucy Neptune  18:46

Right. Like,

Evelyn Archer  18:47

Like, you're looking for someone who's gone missing. You're looking for someone who's vanished, right.

Lucy Neptune  18:52

A love lost.

Evelyn Archer  18:53

You want to make something reappear. You know, you want to take something that's gone and bring it back like that is I got a spell for that.

Lucy Neptune  19:01

Mm hmm.

Evelyn Archer  19:01

Yeah. Like you get something gone that you want back? Yeah, I can do you up a bag for that. No problem. Like, I mean, you got to think real hard about what you want back and think about what right how it's gonna come back. Right. But that's also often the story, especially in noir pictures. Yeah, I think for sure,

Lucy Neptune  19:21

Right. The thing you think, oh, it's going to be like this, you have this scenario in your mind. This is how my life will go. This is how this interaction will go and does it try to jam it and make it so and it's not going to work

Evelyn Archer  19:32

And the next thing you know, it's Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown.  Like, I remember, it became such a part of my lexicon. I don't know if you're familiar with Chinatown with limits. So that is just a masterclass of continuity. That broken nose check. Yes.

Lucy Neptune  19:48

Let me have a sidebar: horrible person made that beautiful movie. We don't even need to acknowledge.

Evelyn Archer  19:53

Who was it?

Lucy Neptune  19:54

Roman Polanski.

Evelyn Archer  19:55

Of course it was yeah, he's the worst. 

Lucy Neptune  19:57

He's the worst, but he made a beautiful, beautiful picture. Yes.

Evelyn Archer  20:00

I remember when I was adjuncting. And we would start, like kind of complaining about something. And then trying, the conversation would always go the same way, where it's like, well, we could try this to fix it. And that fix uncovers another problem. And you're like, well, we could try to fix that in that uncovers another problem. And then we're going on and I remember it, I would say that I'm like, forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown. Like that's, yep. It is.

Lucy Neptune  20:26

There's a deep truth. There's

Evelyn Archer  20:27

There's truth to there. And it's there. They're Minotaur stories. Oh, yes. I mean, they're labyrinth stories. Yes. I definitely think that there's a whole episode to be done about, noir pictures and the myth of the at the Matthias

Lucy Neptune  20:41

Oh, yes. And just to think about iconic spaces that are in different stories over time, like there's the settings that can be incredibly evocative, important and symbolic? Who Yeah, like, like, what I mean, I'm thinking like, you know, the fairy tale setting like you go into the woods, and like, it brings all like, instantly you're in a setting. And you know, there's certain rules and expectations, you know, or the big manor house has, it's a setting and it evokes something you have certain expectations. I'm thinking back to Blanche on the lamb like she's, oh, sure. You know, she's a domestic servant in a house that has a whole different set of space

Evelyn Archer  21:18

travel, I was thinking more about how, especially in specifically in Nora pictures, I think that this metaphor breaks down when you start looking at Golden Age stuff, but it's specifically stuff like Philip Marlowe, that kind of stuff. It really is a Theseus and the Minotaur story because you you start out where you know, a dame comes into your office and says, I'd like you to find my missing sister. You know, she ran off with some guy and I want you to find her. And then it gets as you go into it. It gets weirder and weirder. And it's not about that at all right? twisting back in on yourself.

Lucy Neptune  21:58

And there's something waiting in there and there's

Evelyn Archer  22:00

something waiting there that's gonna get you and the way that you get through this. I know I talk about this constantly talk because it is my probably everybody's got like their favorite fact. This is we're coming up on my favorite fact. So when Theseus went into the labyrinth, or wow, I am such a nerd thesis went to the labyrinth. He was given to help him get through the labyrinth to find his way through. He was given a big ball of red twine. Do you know what the ark? It's an archaic word. It's not in use anymore. But do you know what the word for a ball of twine is?

Lucy Neptune  22:39

I take a guess to twine. That's Greek learning Duolingo.

Evelyn Archer  22:45

It's not a Greek word. It's not a Greek word.

Lucy Neptune  22:47

Greek word for a ball of twine. minutter knows that. Okay,

Evelyn Archer  22:53

I don't know. Oh, clue. CL, e. W. That. That takes Theseus through the labyrinth is a clue. Oh my god. And I believe that that is our origin of that word

Lucy Neptune  23:12

that just connected. Our Venn diagram like that's the fun. Wow.

Evelyn Archer  23:18

It is the greatest piece of knowledge. I have like when I found that out the first time like my whole body vibrated for like a full 30. So like, a clue

Lucy Neptune  23:32

that that is the route that connects the two branches that we have which we currently Yeah, the clue the clue?

Evelyn Archer  23:40

I'm getting chills. Yeah. And of course, you know, I've been trying to work that into a story. 100 times I actually have a story called The clue in the labyrinth. Ooh, yeah. That that is a noir story that is that that starts like they all do with with a phone call. Tool number. Yeah, it's very short. That's good. Yeah, right. I had I would have thought that it's that's really good. Oh, good.

Lucy Neptune  24:10

I had a similar Well, it's not even it's not even similar doesn't even come close. I'll just say it because it's on my mind. I learned that the foil character in you know there he's talking to Shakespeare Well, the so and so was a foil to King Lear. And I learned that the foil that term comes from these two gold plate, or like using metallic foil behind behind the main stone of a ring. So the foil reflects literally is shiny itself, but it's sit there I thought reflect the main I thought

Evelyn Archer  24:39

my assumption of the foil was that it was a fencing reference.

Lucy Neptune  24:44

I was totally opposite.

Evelyn Archer  24:46

I don't have

Lucy Neptune  24:47

to sit but I was

Evelyn Archer  24:48

told I just assumed that I don't know that only but in for my own Gnosis is that was the that's the only word that that made sense to me because I imagined them clanging swords together Yes, yeah, the foil.

Lucy Neptune  25:02

I'm trying to remember where I learned that was either a Shakespeare professor or Bill Bryson.

Evelyn Archer  25:08

Either of which is probably better than me just thinking

Lucy Neptune  25:11

about Yeah. All right, clue foil. These are words of the day. These are the words of the day. Feel free to drink whenever you hear. That's right. Shoot, I was gonna say, oh, in terms of spaces, I also realized, did witches and detectives often not always but often live where they work?

Evelyn Archer  25:32

Oh, yeah. You

Lucy Neptune  25:35

see them in

Evelyn Archer  25:37

the future do please do which way they work. I never thought about that. shawl conflicts where it works. In a way Jessica Fletcher lives where she works. Because she works wherever she is out in the world. People come to her QoQ Aparo lives where he works. And witches do live where they were like, Yeah, child. They can't afford that rent. No, you're not about that life. Come into the kitchen. Yeah. Come into to the kitchen. Sit at the table. Yeah. Or or click on this zoom. Link is what it's becoming. Oh, more now. Yeah, I've been reading Tarot cards over zoom. Yes. And

Lucy Neptune  26:13

it's all the folks where they can contact you use

Evelyn Archer  26:18

tarot card reading start at $25. You can reach me at Elena at Ask Evelyn Archer calm or you can go to ask Evelyn archer.com for more information.

Lucy Neptune  26:27

Yes. She gives a wonderful reading. I

Evelyn Archer  26:30

do. I'm pretty good. I'm pretty good. Just very good. My highest right now this week.

Lucy Neptune  26:35

I'm not taking out this week. But no one's gonna hear it this. Oh, that's

Evelyn Archer  26:37

right. Nobody's gonna hear it this. By the time this is on the I'll be off hiatus. Yes. So yes, please do contact me. I do I do good work. And I have also like developed rituals for people who are, you know, going through some stuff. And like, you know, waist callback, your quest callback, your inner child? beffta. I've done several banishing spells. Yes, please. For ex husbands. The shorthand that I use is like, what's his name? I'll write it down. Put it in the jar. Yeah, you don't want your name right down in the jar.

Lucy Neptune  27:14

Don't get a jar. No, don't get a jar. Yes. Let's see. I have other thoughts about this. I really I actually wrote I drew a Venn diagram. Oh, my God. And I ran out of room subtitles to have I have that they're outliers, right? We talked about that. They are often a lone wolf, as well as being an outsider. They're outlier. Like some of them are not just rejected. But they they also seem to say this is me. And I am.

Evelyn Archer  27:45

Yeah. So not all but some I know not all detectives, but some not all witches, but some. And then there are other detectives and other witches who work in a common I think about Hercule Poirot, who has he has a private secretary and he has, you know, biggest name his current job. They have their own kind of Coven that they work in. And more modern detective stories. They have an even larger coven. Because they'll have people who can, you know, they'll have somebody this is one of the things I love about like a tech wizard. Like they'll have like a tech guy or even if they're not like, if it's not like complex. Like if it's not cop Landia or whatever. They'll have somebody they know at the library librarians are always very useful. People who work at the DMV are very useful. Think about like the the collection of people that Veronica Mars, yes. Uses up Cliff, the lawyer I love the lawyer. I love Cliff, the lawyer and I love that Cliff. The lawyer knows he's a terrible lawyer.

Lucy Neptune  28:56

He's actually not always terrible, but he does know who he is. Yeah. And I think he's the forerunner to Saul Goodman.

Evelyn Archer  29:03

I agree. I agree. He is the is the kernel of saga for real. But they'll be experts that they rely on there'll be somebody that knows this area. Even Sherlock Holmes had the Baker Street irregulars and he so there's even though they may be a lone wolf, there is a coven that a lot of them right work with their resources, right? None of them really do it alone. Right? They can't. And when they try, it just ends up badly.

Lucy Neptune  29:32

That's really lovely, actually, in a way because it is good. Again, proof of art deep interconnected

Evelyn Archer  29:38

and absolutely, absolutely. And that is something that is deeply connected to witchcraft as well, like both in literature and in you know, real life witchcraft. It is about our interconnectedness to each other, and to the natural world. The Earth is alive. magic is real, as Mandy Garcia says and it is When we try to do it, and I have to do it alone, right, the lone wolf, that's, that's capitalism, but I can with you. That's what that is. And even you know, you look at somebody like Sam Spade, as as a kind of lone wolf. He was a lone wolf. He had a partner's partner got shot the first 10 minutes of the movie, right? And this is all about him finding out what happened to his partner and trying to get his whole band back together. And do you think for one second, he could have done any of this without Effie, his secretary? No, no, I have a whole headcanon a whole fanfic idea that you know how like at the end of the Maltese Falcon, you know, spoiler for a movie that's almost 100 years old. It's, you know, it's not the Maltese Falcon. It's like a fake or whatever. And they're like, we thought it was real. All the stuff that dreams are made of. I'm like, Yup, because if you look closely, the last person to handle the Maltese Falcon was Effie. Effie took off with it. I just got two properties, right. That's Oh my god, I

Lucy Neptune  30:58

should totally write that story. Oh, my God. I

Evelyn Archer  31:01

have had like a fantasy of writing kind of fanfic detective fiction. Yeah, we're Effie, the secretary. Yes. Or Sam Spade is actually the one that's been doing all of the work, because it is like an alcoholic womanizing piece of shit, right? I can't and these people actually need help. So

Lucy Neptune  31:18

right, she's like, for fuck sake, I'll do it. Yeah, I'll do it. You should absolutely right that first of all, publishers love the telling a retelling of a tale from a different facet. So that shit would sell. Well, I

Evelyn Archer  31:31

can't see. And the thing is the minute that I go there, I'm immediately shut down. Like, what do you mean? That shit would sell? Oh, okay. Well, now it has to be good enough to sell. And now it has to be Oh, I'm just talking about my Oh, don't right.

Lucy Neptune  31:42

Yeah, yes. Do it for fun. Yeah, I think I'll sell it for you. You do it for fun.

Evelyn Archer  31:46

Yeah, we're trying to we're rehabilitating my relationship to my creative process. Yeah, we're just doing it because I have, you know, thrown myself upon the cliff face of publishing for nigh on 10 years. I'm exhausted. Now come down. I want to see what it feels like to write something.

Lucy Neptune  32:04

fun dance and really with the fans freely

Evelyn Archer  32:07

with the things that you love, and I do love Sam Spade. He is an alcoholic womanizing piece of shit, but I love him down to the clocks on his socks. I really, I do have him I like the book Sam Spade, especially. I've very soft spot in my heart for all of those Philip Marlowe. Sure, for sure. Yeah, they were my nervous breakdown books.

Lucy Neptune  32:30

Wow. We all have this.

Evelyn Archer  32:35

Well, and that's the other one of the other things I was thinking about to about where the little mystery in the big mystery intersect? Yeah. Is is how, what a detective is trying to do a detective story by and large has one function, order and reason triumph over chaos and insanity at a single time. Yes. And they're trying to restore order to the chaos. Right. And in a sense, even though it might not really look like it all the time. Which is a restoring a different kind of order. Absolutely. Like it might not be capitalist order. It might not be white supremacist order, but it is a different kind of

Lucy Neptune  33:16

it's an energetic order energetic order. Yeah, it has to do with Justice often. Absolutely. But I was gonna say, you know, in a nervous breakdown book, and you've you've talked about this and other places as well, like, of course, you went to a detective story. Of course, like that, of course, we want order. And so these artists, I think

Evelyn Archer  33:35

it was it was very special that it was Sam Spade. Because, Sam, poor Sam, he's not a very great detective. He just, he is a just a decent person in a deeply corrupt world. And as he gets involved with all these shenanigans, and all these people, there is a core sense of goodness to him, like at the end of the multisoft. And he loves her, he does love her. But he's gonna have to send her to jail. But because he's also kind of a full, he'll probably wait for her to get out of jail. And then when she gets out of jail, he'll probably get back together with her like

Lucy Neptune  34:21

that. And she'll economize

Evelyn Archer  34:23

on amount of a budget. And he'll know it's happening but he's like, I just

Lucy Neptune  34:27

I just couldn't I like yeah,

Evelyn Archer  34:29

I love you. Like yeah, so if you're if if you're if I ever go missing, if I'm on the lam somewhere I will be of course I'm telling everybody now so in case I go missing, anybody can find me. But I've always said the best incognito names for me. I would either be traveling under the name of Underhill, like, like Frodo Baggins. Or I would be Alice Wonderly. Oh, that's the fake name that she gets And I was like, yeah, exactly. That's that's it's just, it's under the radar.

Lucy Neptune  35:08

Well, yeah. Okay, so now here's another supposition. Sure. What's here for a Venn diagram? Lack of significant others? Well, let me say lack of spouses or life or romantic partners in some way. Yet get your smokes. This is like and cut this

Evelyn Archer  35:28

part out, don't smoke, kids stay in school.

Lucy Neptune  35:32

But if you do smoke, smoke, good tobacco.

Evelyn Archer  35:36

And we're back.

Lucy Neptune  35:38

So cuz I was thinking like, you know, well, I don't know. I think the witch is I don't think of witches as being married with her as well,

Evelyn Archer  35:48

why there's a reason for that. And I think, again, tonight, we're talking about like, we're not talking about actual witches live in the world, because I know a lot of real witches who are really married short, we're talking about like the witch iconography. Right. Right. And I trying to think of the wicked stepmother is technically married, right. But it's not a natural marriage. It's, it's something else, right? It's

Lucy Neptune  36:14

a business, right?

Evelyn Archer  36:15

It's a business arrangement, and also something evil and you know, etc, etc. And I'm thinking that has to do with the outlier status. And I think when we're talking about the history of which iconography, the fact that they were, like women, like people who presented as women were without a man without the protection of a husband, or like a cis het marriage, added to their suspicion, right, and added to them being suspicious, and untrustworthy. And something's wrong here. Right, something's wrong here. So I think that that is part of why that there is that iconography, and which kind of leads into you know, when we get into later, images, we're looking at things like, Well, I think about

Lucy Neptune  37:07

Miss Gulch, Miss Gulch, yes, Miss Gulch,

Evelyn Archer  37:11

for who was who turned into the Wicked Witch of the West and Dr. Oz, right. And there's a way to read that, where she was like, this dog is terrorizing my cat. You've got to do something about your dog.

Lucy Neptune  37:24

And she's speaking up and she's not being nice support really

Evelyn Archer  37:28

nice on a bicycle, too. And she is portrayed

Lucy Neptune  37:32

as I can hear the music.

Evelyn Archer  37:34

Yeah. A withered old spinster, a dried up old spinster, and cranky me Yes, because she's not doesn't have a man and doesn't have any children. And that's why she's so crabby and mean. And notice she's Miss Gulch. She's not Mrs. anybody. Oh, yeah, she's Miss Gulch.

Lucy Neptune  37:54

So she's an old me. She's

Evelyn Archer  37:55

an old maid. She's a spinster. And that iconography has, which like connotations, as well, like, we have a whole card game for it. Oh,

Lucy Neptune  38:08

my God.

Evelyn Archer  38:09

Old Maid, right?

Lucy Neptune  38:10

No card game of old man.

Evelyn Archer  38:12

No, we don't. We don't have that confirmed bachelor. Which where I'm from, it's like a euphemism for being gay. Right. But it's, I think that there are different reasons for it. Like, I think honestly, for for detectives, one of the reasons why I think that they end up being without a spouse, regardless of the gender of and I'm talking more about privatize and amateur sleuths not really talking about cops, no, but privatize amateurishly. The reason why they're often uncoupled for my money, like from a narrative standpoint, it gives them a lot of freedom of movement. There are restrictions to that certainly there are but those are usually cops with like a family and then and then you have to like write the whole family and then like, Well, if he stays out till three in the morning like tailing this perp or whatever, like he's got call somebody, like,

Lucy Neptune  39:07

what do you do? I think as a reader as a viewer, I don't necessarily want them to have happy home lives. I am drawn to them, in part because they're, they're a little lost themselves. And they're, you know, knocking around their empty apartment that has been cleaned. Yes,

Evelyn Archer  39:24

I predict you're going out. There's

Lucy Neptune  39:25

something honest about it.

Evelyn Archer  39:27

For them to have a found family rather than a kind of straight, right, sis heteronormative.

Lucy Neptune  39:34

right that there were deeply close and loyal to the bartender on the corner. And for the girl who

Evelyn Archer  39:40

works at the diner like right lady who works at the bookstore. There's a really for my buddy, it's a very hot love scene if you want to and I think that's talking about it in Maltese Falcon. I know how long has it been since you sing The Maltese Falcon? Oh, like 1000 years?

Lucy Neptune  39:55

No, I saw earlier this year there was a day I was sick. I'm like, I'm sick. I'm watching multispan Why'd after got my vaccine I was choice like Maltese Falcon perfect like

Evelyn Archer  40:05

perfect. The scene when he is in the bookshop, spying on the bookshop cross the street. Wait is that Maltese Falcon or is that Big Chill? I get mixed up.

Lucy Neptune  40:16

They're both both guards might be big.

Evelyn Archer  40:18

I think that's a big chunk. I'm not big chill are the big sleep. The Big Sleep, I think that's a big sleep. Well, there's a moment where he's, yeah, it's the big sleep, because it's all about the pornography. There's an antiquarian bookstore. And he's trying to figure out what they're moving through there. And he knows something is fishy, but he needs to keep an eye on it. And he's at another bookstore across the street. And there's this very cute, kind of vaguely sexy librarian ish girl where he's like, so how much would it cost to shut this bookstore down for a couple of hours, basically, so I could spy on the guy across the street. And she's like, What? Like, she's like, you're hot. So I'm going to turn that side to close. You break out that bottle and this stuff, like fade to black and it's like, wow, that was like a hot sexy right? They're like Yes. To black Fade to black. That's yeah, that's it feels Dietrich's

Lucy Neptune  41:11

having fantasies. Now. I'm like, I want to be the girl in the bookstore. Right, like, well,

Evelyn Archer  41:16

you should write my back. Yeah, I write that one too. If you could both write that.

Lucy Neptune  41:21

Yes. That'd be hot. Yes. Seamed pantyhose.

Evelyn Archer  41:25

Oh, yeah. She has little glasses. Like it's super hot. It's a super hot situation cardigan. But yeah, I feel that I am less interested. I don't want these like, I would be less interested. I think when Jessica Fletcher she her husband. I think that there's also their uncoupled Ness, I don't want to call it aloneness because they're often part of a community, but their aloneness. It really creates a sense of ease of movement, in certain ways, like, especially for female characters. And for male characters in a different way.

Lucy Neptune  42:04

I think it's part of their drive, I think it's part of their engine. Like they maybe have a longing for someone or they feel freedom. And they're exploring, like maybe just for or they're there.

Evelyn Archer  42:16

They're like with Jessica Fletcher. To me, that's a lot about loss. Because she wrote to the Corpse Danced at midnight, like we said, in the wake of her husband's passing, right, right, after she retired, and she was grieving and bored. Right. And so she wrote a mystery novel,

Lucy Neptune  42:32

right? That's what I mean by engineers. It's part of the thing that propels them to keep.

Evelyn Archer  42:36

And now there are good examples of detectives who are coupled. I'm thinking specifically of my beloved Armand Gamache, of the Louise Penny, three pints. That's in Quebec in Canada. And he is actually a real policeman though. And I think when you're a real policeman, giving them a family helps ground them, that keeps them from going off the deep end, right? And his wife's name is Reine-Marie, lovely, Reine-Marie.

Lucy Neptune  43:08

We'd love her. Not as

Evelyn Archer  43:11

much as he does. Oh, he is and they're in their 50s. And he is cuckoo banana brains head over heels for his wife. He has grown children, he is close with them. And now what Louise Penny does though, is rather than these being sometimes they recede into the background. But their interpersonal dynamics are evoked in what's happening in the murder mystery. Ah, and that is extra, honestly, for my money that's extremely complicated. And not something I always want out of my murder mysteries. Sometimes I just want the puzzle. Sure. Sometimes I just want the puzzle. But I do think that those are exceptions. Right. And like I said, I think there almost always comes now there are examples of married couple detecting duo.

Lucy Neptune  44:05

Yes, Nick and Nora,

Evelyn Archer  44:07

Nora, Nick and Nora. Heart to Heart. Ah,

Lucy Neptune  44:12

oh moonlighting right, there's their sexual identity and their sexual tension. Duo's coupled. There that's different sherlock and watson a little bit. Yeah.

Evelyn Archer  44:21

But I do think that somebody like you, Nick and Nora, Charles, there's also Agatha Christie had one too we

Lucy Neptune  44:27

just pause for a moment as you're talking about how much I love how much everybody fucking drinks and smokes in Nick and Nora. Everybody's got a high ball in their hand. You never not hear the sound of ice cubes clinking and it's like, how are you going darling? And like clipping like just shut along, like, play sound like oh, let's get the gowns the guy was one of those magical guys. I want a big fluffy bathrobe but the big fool Oh my god. Marabou in the slippers. I just want it.

Evelyn Archer  44:55

It's part of the fantasy Right? Like there's just no way you could actually solve mysteries and be that drunk all the time. I'm trying to think there's Nick and Charles and Agatha Christie has a pair too. And it's escaping me right now. We'll put it we'll, I'll look it up, and I'll put it in the show notes. But what those are doing something different they, Nick and Nora, Agatha Christie one heart to heart, they function as a unit. And it's the two of them facing whatever it is right and solving the crime. But that's different than a detective with a husband or a wife. Right? Right. I like I said, there's some modern ones that are like that. They're mostly cops, bounty hunters, that kind of thing. But that is a I think that that also speaks to their natures outliers, too. I think that's, and it's important that they live in a way on the edge of society, because they need perspective because of the perspective that it gives them. Yeah. And also the compassion that it allows, right? Because if you are marginalized, whether that is by society, or if you have have self marginalized for some reason, it can it should give you more compassion for people who are also marginalized for people who might need the help that you're privileged kind of for. Right, like, and that's really what I see a lot of the noir detectives doing. That's what Hercule Poirot does a lot is. I mean, he's an outlier. He's a refugee. Like, let's not forget, right? That. Yeah, there's so there's supposed to be a new Hercule Pyro game that I'm excited about a new because Frogwares has been doing really good Hercule Poirot games for a while video games like computer games. But these are going to be young Hercule Poirot , where they're imagining him still with the Belgian police department.

Lucy Neptune  46:51

Oh, my God very interested in I am deeply intrigued.

Evelyn Archer  46:55

I am very interested, I'll let you know I'm literally going to buy it on Steam when it comes out, obviously.

Lucy Neptune  47:00

And Evelyn, you mentioned another time we were recording about doing a maybe a Patreon, or something and people join you on yet,

Evelyn Archer  47:10

like what I would do in the future, when we maybe have a Patreon? Yes, one of the top tier rewards like I don't I don't see it as like something I would do all the time. But like if we reached a certain goal. Sure. I would play Nancy Drew. Yes. But I actually went back and replayed a couple of my old Nancy Drew games recently, and I find them. The replayability is just unbelievable on these games, like you would think, Oh, well, you know who did it. So why would you bother playing and those are fun. Puzzles are fun and engaging with the story is fun. And honestly, sometimes it's been so long since I played them. I remember who did it. But I don't really remember what the deal was. Like. But yeah, I would totally do that. I would totally do the Yeah, definitely. A little closer. I would totally do the Hercule Pyro games, too. There's a lot of walking back and forth. It's not a particularly dynamic. Because I always think of Twitch as being you know, teen boys playing shoot 'em up games. Probably

Lucy Neptune  48:21

not our audience.

Evelyn Archer  48:22

I don't think that's our audience. I just,

Lucy Neptune  48:25

I don't know, friends.

Evelyn Archer  48:28

I don't know. But like, I had a friend who told me she's like, you know, you could just get on Twitch and like, read Sylvia Plath and smoke cigarettes and put a tip jar out. And I bet that would be a great only fans like I would absolutely pay. Yeah, to watch you smoke cigarettes and read Sylvia Plath. I'm like, that's why the hell not. Maybe that's my retirement plan. Yeah, I mean, my retirement plan at this point is a house on some chicken feet in the woods.

Lucy Neptune  48:53

No, no, we're going to have our our trailer park or the park home our trailer park patch or trailer park patch. Alright, so I have another thing on my list. I know we're going on. However, this good stuff. I think often to now I'm thinking about the people who seek out a detective or seek out a witch. I think they often well. They can't go anywhere else they are and they are required often to make a leap of faith towards the towards the helper.

Evelyn Archer  49:26

I always I think what I see more than that, is you go to a PI. When you can't go to the cops. Why are you going to the cops, Mrs. What Miss Wonderley. If your sister's missing? Why don't you want to go to the cops? If you're going to a witch? You might a little bit be not having a lot of other options. Right? Maybe you don't have access to health care. Maybe you don't have access to or maybe you've tried these things and they're not working or you have a secret unit to keep or you have a secret that you need to keep. And I think that that is where both witches and private decks kind of come together is their ability to keep secrets? For sure. And I think the people that come to them are often not always but often out of other options. Out of options, like I think about Yeah,

Lucy Neptune  50:23

it's the last stop. It's the last

Evelyn Archer  50:24

stop. Hmm, not that I think that which is should be the last stop. But right, no, but I often be like, one of the first places you go, right, because we can actually be very, very helpful to you. But I do think that when you're talking about like a leap of faith, like if you go to the cops for help, yeah, that's

Lucy Neptune  50:46

not accurate, actually, as I think about more, but they they have to come to trust each other. Well, let's say it this way, for the purpose of the Venn diagram. If you are not completely honest with your detective, or which, you're probably going to have a problem, you're gonna have a big it's gonna bounce back on,

Evelyn Archer  51:04

you're gonna have a big fucking problem. Yeah, but the same could be said for a lawyer or COP. That's not specific, I think. But to detectives, or witches,

Lucy Neptune  51:14

there's Yeah, it feels more like true for lawyer and cop, I think because of who the detective and the witch, I feel like there's something more that with about the bounce back,

Evelyn Archer  51:24

I think with a see I wasn't thinking about it as a karmic bounce back. But I think with like a lawyer or COP, there's a system in place, right? That however truthful, however, it's false. It may be there's a system in place that says, You have to trust these people. They have, they have a badge, they have, you know, a law degree, they're here to help you. They're here to help you. That is not usually true. But the system says that it's true. And both the private deck and the which are working outside of that system. Yeah. So the leap of faith that I think that the the querent has to take is not do I trust this person, what they're really doing is putting their trust outside the system. Like, they're saying, I'm not putting my trust in the police department. No, I'm putting my trust in Sam Spade. Because honestly, Sam Spade is going to think about how best he can help you. And a cop is not going to do that.

Lucy Neptune  52:25

Right? So leap of faith is not is not fully accurate. Because it could also be if I'm, if I have ulterior motives, I might also think, Oh, you are outside the system. Therefore, I can play you sure to my advantage. Sure. But that's not going to work out probably too. Well.

Evelyn Archer  52:42

Not flush on either end. Yeah. But that's also not something I see a lot either in, in real life, witchcraft in the iconography of witchcraft or in private decks. I don't really know I'm thinking about

Lucy Neptune  52:52

like, Mary Wonderly, for example, Oh, yes. Not quite, you know, like, Bo, but I'm going to get her somebody, you know, shows up at Keith Mars's door, and like, Oh, Mr. Morris, could you please help? You know? And like, quite telling the whole?

Evelyn Archer  53:04

Well, yeah, and I think they're not quite telling the whole truth. And trying to think about Miss Wonderly. And she was like, Oh, it's my, yeah, cuz if she, yeah, I think you're right, because they're outside of that system. They can maybe play that to their advantage a little bit more. Now, I think when you're looking at which iconography that kind of gets flipped a little bit, because it's seen more as the person who's reading your tarot cards, telling your fortune or whatever, they're the ones who are putting something over on you. It's why when I when I do a tarot reading for someone, I give a little, I give a little speech about how I can't tell you the future about how I'm not going to charge you $200 To take the curse of the coffee that's been put on your family. Like, if anybody tries to tell you that it's a lie. If you think you've been hexed you've hexed yourself. I can help with that. But nobody's Hexing you like it's but there is an idea that they are that witches or fortune tellers are

Lucy Neptune  54:09

swindler they're swindlers, right.

Evelyn Archer  54:11

They're swindlers. And so you have to I guess, if you want to talk about a leap of faith, you're you're praying that they don't swindle you. Mm hmm.

Lucy Neptune  54:18

And right, they establish the client and the witch or the detective. They have to establish their own kind of ground rules.

Evelyn Archer  54:27

Yeah, yeah.

Lucy Neptune  54:29

I don't know. Just

Evelyn Archer  54:31

30 bucks a day plus expenses.

Lucy Neptune  54:36

That's kind of what I have for my event diagram. Should we talk about Dick of the week?

Evelyn Archer  54:40

Who's your dick of the week,

Lucy Neptune  54:41

my dick? Governor Cuomo,

Evelyn Archer  54:44

talk to me about your dick of the week.

Lucy Neptune  54:46

You know, I'm not gonna talk too much about him. You're gonna say this is the week so he was there was a committee that grilled him for 911 hours about his inappropriate comments and Handsiness and basically being blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We are bored with your story. And now they said that the committee found him like, yes, he sexually harassed people. Yes. He had unwanted touching. Yes. And of course now he's in the stage where he's like, Oh, the committee is corrupt. I did none of those things. And I'm like, I am bored. Oh, my God with you. I am bored with lazy men. And who is this? This was governor, Governor Andrew Cuomo,

Evelyn Archer  55:30

Governor Andrew Cuomo, your dick of the week your name is in

Lucy Neptune  55:33

the jar. You're You're boring. You're typical. You're lazy. You know what you did? And you don't take account for yourself

Evelyn Archer  55:43

thing. And I actually disagreed on with him. They disagree. I don't think he does. No,

Lucy Neptune  55:48

he No, he doesn't. Yes, he does. No,

Evelyn Archer  55:50

I'll tell you. And I'll tell you why. Because it doesn't occur to him. That what he did was wrong.

Lucy Neptune  55:56

No, I think he doesn't care.

Evelyn Archer  55:59

I think it doesn't. I don't honestly know. I think that's giving him too much power. And I don't think he's sitting there twisting his moustache and rubbing his hands together going ooh, yes, I got away with yet another sexual risk. No, if he actually respected I don't think he thinks it's sexual harassment. I think he's just thinking it's bros being Bros. and everybody's just blown it way out of proportion. His sense of entitlement is so enormous, that it doesn't even look like wrong to him. Well, that,

Lucy Neptune  56:28

to me, that's

Evelyn Archer  56:29

what's so distressing about it, actually,

Lucy Neptune  56:32

I think he thinks Oh, it's okay. When I do this, because I like he's excused himself in some way. I think he absolutely knows. I, if there's so many men, good men out there being like, oh, I should think about how I approach someone. Like, a whole lot of men are getting the message about consent. And you know, thinking, Oh, this is how women experienced like, the memos are out there. Oh, sure. He's gotten

Evelyn Archer  57:01

lucky, dude, this is not about information. He knows. But he doesn't think that it's wrong. He doesn't care. That's the thing. He doesn't think it's wrong, because he's doing it. Right. Right. And if he's doing it, it must not be right. That's why I'm like, No, I don't really think he's like, he got away with another one. I don't I don't think that's what's going on in his head. I don't think it even fucking occurs to him that there's anything to be sorry for.

Lucy Neptune  57:27

I think we're seeing more of the same thing with different vocal, I think slightly different take on it. Yeah, yeah, cuz I don't think he gives a fuck, I don't think he's he doesn't respect those people. He doesn't treat them as equal. He doesn't consider them as he doesn't even say that. Right. Right. He probably won't even remember their names. Yeah. So even real,

Evelyn Archer  57:46

so why would it matter? So I think yeah, so I think he fucking you might as well like, you know, ask him to be sorry for stepping on an ant. Like, it's gross. So So Governor Cuomo, your name is in the jar. You were taking the week now?

Lucy Neptune  58:01

Now let's talk

Evelyn Archer  58:02

about people we want to celebrate. Well, I have the witch of the week. Oh, please. Witch of the week? Yes. Is Simone Biles, ladies and gentlemen's ladies and gentlemen? I give to you, Simone Biles, who, in the moments of knowing her ancestors, guardians, goddesses guides whispered in her ear, and she listened. And she said, the most powerful of powerful magic words. She said no. To a system that has been denigrating her body, abusing her for many years. What she does is punishing physically, she also

Lucy Neptune  58:51

she listened also to her body. She said, Yes, I am going to listen to you. Yes, we are not right. We are not right. And we will not sacrifice our health and the fact

Evelyn Archer  59:00

that she said no to that system and said yes to her own mental health and physical health. That is the strongest witchcraft. I have seen in a really long time. That is

Lucy Neptune  59:14

some pretty strong which and that was a victory in so many ways. So many ways. Watching Yeah, and another battle we know she's the best of all time. We know that we I was thrilled that she was able to compete

Evelyn Archer  59:26

well. And that's what I think is so moving. It was beautiful. This was deeply anti patriarchal. It was anti capitalist. It was anti racist. Like it was a deeply like, she said, No, I'm going to rest.

Lucy Neptune  59:40

I'm choosing love. I am choosing care. Yeah, I am choosing not on this timeline. Yeah. As a big money machine.

Evelyn Archer  59:47

Yes. I am choosing I don't care about the gold medal.

Lucy Neptune  59:52

Well, yeah, not that she doesn't care but she will not sacrifice herself. No,

Evelyn Archer  59:55

but it's not as if you're not actually important. Right? Right. It's not actually important and she showed that to the world and I think that she could not have done that without who should have been the witch of the week of several weeks ago. Naomi Osaka, Oh, yes. And I love to see it. I love this trend, especially of young black women, women of color, saying no, you do not have the right to access me anytime you want. Right and what this is, this is sending a powerful reverberating message to everyone. Absolutely everyone. So yeah, for my money. Simone Biles is witch of the week

Lucy Neptune  1:00:37

I went to the week also comes from the Olympics. Ms. Raven Saunders.

Evelyn Archer  1:00:44

Raven Saunders, tell me about Raven. Raven

Lucy Neptune  1:00:46

Saunders is oh, she is she is just powerful and magnificent. She throws the shotput she throws the discus. Oh, right. She's fierce. And she dyed her hair half green, half purple to match her Hulk figures and she wears a Hulk mask when Yes, she had a Hulk mask. And I believe that's what's her to her Instagram handle. I think it's give me one shot something is her cute. And bless her. Her mother just passed like two or three days after she won. I believe she won bronze. I have to double check this. And on the podium. She threw her arms into an ex. And she said it represented the intersection of so much she's lesbian. It represented the intersection of many people who are oppressed. And she she is oh, she's wonderful. She's impressive. She's amazing. And oh, the yells when they throw the Oh yeah, to find this and play the yells that did my soul. Something good. Oh, good. Well, good.

Evelyn Archer  1:01:49

I have not been following the Olympics. Except I do know for my Instagram that there is some kind of track and field guy who is knitting between.

Lucy Neptune  1:01:57

Oh, yes, that diver what's his name? It's a diver tom daley  was knitting a cosy for his medal. I kind of in love and then a dog sweater. His husband says he needs something to keep him occupied. So

Evelyn Archer  1:02:09

that's pretty smart. Here

Lucy Neptune  1:02:11

you go. Busy boy.

Evelyn Archer  1:02:12

Yeah, that's pretty smart. Tom Daley's husband.

Lucy Neptune  1:02:14

Here a busy boy have some knitting. Alright women shotput okay founder that Banshee is gone. Li Zhao,

Evelyn Archer  1:02:34

did you start recording again?

Lucy Neptune  1:02:35

I did record it. Yeah. Women's shotput fan champion that her yet that yell feed satisfied. I get it in my soul. I

Evelyn Archer  1:02:45

get it. Yeah, I want to throw some

Lucy Neptune  1:02:47

shit in the park and just be like Ah, let's see tarot card today.

Evelyn Archer  1:02:54

The card that I would pick for the beginning of this would be the fool because that's zero with card. It is the very first card in major arcana. And in the Rider Waite Smith deck. You'll see it's like the person with like a little spindle, and there's a little dog at their heels and they're like, do you have to do them on a journey and they're about to step off a cliff. I think that's us.

Lucy Neptune  1:03:18

It's because it was a wily coyote kind of umbrella.

Evelyn Archer  1:03:21

A little bit, but no, no, no. Like, like

Lucy Neptune  1:03:26

what is the bindle? You said

Evelyn Archer  1:03:27

a bindle? Is it no a bindle? Is that the stick with the bandana tied to the end? Okay.

Lucy Neptune  1:03:34

Yeah, that perfect. Yeah, Kindle or bindlestiff. Oh my goodness. I'm learning word. Wow.

Evelyn Archer  1:03:42

That is

Lucy Neptune  1:03:43

Yeah, I don't know what that word. I've never heard that. Yeah,

Evelyn Archer  1:03:46

you never saw the

Lucy Neptune  1:03:47

Kindle. I know what it is. No, God. No.

Evelyn Archer  1:03:50

Oh my god. Google it. Okay, that plate spinning number will blow your mind. Oh, okay. Please perform it is 220 like 1000 years ago. Their, their? Their circus. They're like an adult performance art circus. Okay. Just Google Bindlestiff Family Circus. Plate spinning. Okay, but spinning is probably the greatest thing I've ever seen live. I can't wait. It's fantastic. Um, but yeah, his little his little packet. Okay, he's getting ready to step off a cliff. And I feel that that is kind of what we're doing is we're but it's a good energy to have. It's not a bad card. It's the beginning of things start. It's unguarded. It's beginner's mind. Yes. Very much. Yeah. So I think that's our tarot card this week. Fabulous. Figure out this podcasting.

Lucy Neptune  1:04:39

We'll figure it out.

Evelyn Archer  1:04:41

Ah, Lucy Neptune. It's been a blast.

Lucy Neptune  1:04:43

avalan This is fabulous. We have some good discussion and we will put it in put things in the show notes and tape on the thing. At some

Evelyn Archer  1:04:53

point we will figure out how to get offstage on this thing. We will not figure it out by you know smoking with you Keep those cards and letters coming I don't know what to say

Lucy Neptune  1:05:03

if you have an idea for our outro please let us know please let us know I'm an archer I am Lucy Neptune and this has been witches

Evelyn Archer  1:05:11

Adickes Ciao Bella's