It’s MIYAZAKI TIME! Yubaba & Zeniba as two sides of Baba Yaga, Janus the two-faced God, doors and windows. Chihiro as Detective. Yubaba as Noir Crime boss. Recorded Aug 19, 2021.
Card of the Week: The Lovers
Spirited Away (Streaming on HBOMax) Ghibli Spirited Away Fandom
Witch of the Week: adrienne maree brown
adrienne maree brown, Emergent Strategies
Logo by Alex Zapata
Music by Prettysleepy on Pixabay
Transcript by Otter AI
Public Library Association
It’s MIYAZAKI TIME! Yubaba & Zeniba as two sides of Baba Yaga, Janus the two-faced God, doors and windows. Chihiro as Detective. Yubaba as Noir Crime boss. Recorded Aug 19, 2021.
Card of the Week: The Lovers
Spirited Away (Streaming on HBOMax) Ghibli Spirited Away Fandom
Witch of the Week: adrienne maree brown
adrienne maree brown, Emergent Strategies
Logo by Alex Zapata
Music by Prettysleepy on Pixabay
Transcript by Otter AI
Public Library Association
EPISODE-FIVE-SPIRITED-AWAY “She’s extremely clever. It’s kind of a nightmare”
Recorded August 19, 2021
Lucy Neptune 00:01
There's something a bit supernatural about detectives.
Evelyn Archer 00:04
And there's a bit of the private dick in a witch.
Lucy Neptune 00:06
Veronica Mars removes hexes.
Evelyn Archer 00:08
Willow Rosenberg solves crimes.
Lucy Neptune 00:10
I'm Lucy Neptune.
Evelyn Archer 00:11
I'm Evelyn Archer.
Lucy Neptune 00:12
We're coming to you live to tape from unceded Narragansett and Wampanoag land.
Evelyn Archer 00:17
And we're here to have a little chinwag about witches, private dicks, and the place where the "Little m" mystery meets up with the "Big M" Mystery. This is Witches and Dicks.
Evelyn Archer 00:00
Hi, folks, it's Lucy and Evelyn coming to you from the future. We're preparing our season closer episode and we want to hear from you.
Lucy Neptune 00:08
You can ask us anything, book recommendations, baking problems, a ministry you just can't solve.
Evelyn Archer 00:14
Send your questions to witches index@gmail.com or hit us up on Instagram app, which is index. Let us be your agony ons and you can hear your letter read on the air.
Lucy Neptune 00:25
Recording. Yes, hello. Hello. Hello. Hello.
Evelyn Archer 00:28
Okay. All right. So here's our intro music. Did you do which is index did some witches index with Lucy Neptune? What is up? Hello, what is going down in Lucy town?
Lucy Neptune 00:43
I am super super excited to be here because I'm always excited to be here. I'm always excited for you. The funnest funnest project is super fun. And I just get real happy to the whole day before. And the next day. It's like I had a hot date or something and that guy recorded. So fun because stupid. Stupid. Yeah, whatever type type type one, or type type type. So yeah, so I'm very excited and about to go on vacation.
Evelyn Archer 01:10
oh my god, friends. That's
Lucy Neptune 01:12
gonna be it's gonna be really good a whole week, a whole week by the beach. And I don't even care if it rains and doesn't matter. 100% doesn't matter. Yeah, the hilarious thing is, so there's this group email going and three of us four ladies who are meeting three of us are like, Okay, well, I want to go do this. And I want to go do that. And then wouldn't it be fun to get pedicures?
Evelyn Archer 01:36
Oh my god, I'm exhausted just listening to this.
Lucy Neptune 01:38
So I'm the fourth one who was in there, like, what's on your list? I'm gonna bring this this I'm like, Girl, I'm gonna go list the day before I leave. I plan to sit on the deck and sit on the couch, and maybe sit at the beach. And then shower, rinse repeat. Like that's my plan for vacation.
Evelyn Archer 01:55
I am 100% on board with this plan. Go read an app. I have some friends that we have vacationed with before. Wow, some people are really activity people are and less people in planning list. But just the activity people on on vacation. I just, I fucking cannot do it. Like when Alan and I would go away for an anniversary weekend. We would maybe plan we'd be away for four days. And we would plan to do one thing. Like we went to the.... Remember when we took that Forest Bath walk? Yes, that was we were gone for four days. We planned one thing the rest of the time. We sat or walked. That's all I want to do. I want to enjoy some legal adult gummies and a fancy cappuccino, and read my library book and make out with your husband and make out with my husband. Yeah. The other thing I love to do on vacation because I am a big weirdo. I love to go to the public library. Ooh. And I love to sit in their coffee shop. Like, even if it's not somewhere super fancy. Like if it's not, you know, Prague or anything like that. Like I remember we went to black Island one time for a romantic getaway. We're not b&b people. But that's another story. The Little Free Library, the island free library on Block Island is the cutest, most precious library that I will protect at all costs. It is my favorite thing ever.
Lucy Neptune 03:35
I have never been to Block Island so I need to go and go directly to the library.
Evelyn Archer 03:39
It's pretty terrific. I have to say. And I am excited because around here at the Evelyn Archer House. It's been a fermentation station. Right fermentation station here I've got
Lucy Neptune 03:53
bubblin Baldwin,
Evelyn Archer 03:55
you know, I love my bubbling cauldrons. I really do. I've got a like a cabbage sauerkraut going I've got a yogurt going. I've got mother Ward and Yarrow, cold processing and oil so I can make salves I'll be like SAVs friends because that's what's going to happen in the fall. And I plan this whole thing out it's just which is fuck because I'm swapping out so that the motherboard and Yarrow oil and oh the cherry basil shrub that's aging in the refrigerator and the sauerkraut that is fermenting on the kitchen floor. I mean, it's in a bottle. Yeah. They're all going to be ready for the fall equinox.
Lucy Neptune 04:36
It you are gonna hit like peak wage peak weight
Evelyn Archer 04:39
peak week.
Lucy Neptune 04:41
Peak, which
Evelyn Archer 04:43
peak which is pretty exciting. It's great.
Lucy Neptune 04:46
It's great. And did we say already that you gave me a cooking lesson? No.
Evelyn Archer 04:52
I did not give you a cookie. You didn't
Lucy Neptune 04:54
but here's the thing. It reminded me. You made dinner but you can't have just pointed out things I could observe because friends, yours truly does not really cook hardly at all. Okay,
Evelyn Archer 05:07
let's be real clear. Because I think what when you say I don't really cook hardly at all. What she means by that is she subsist entirely on frozen dinners and takeout but because it has the word organic stamped on it, she's decided it's a good food choice she doesn't make food for herself. So I'm the cancer sun rising up cancer Sun Aquarius moon is like oh my god. Should have Aquarius moon. Oh, yeah.
Lucy Neptune 05:40
I have Aquarius. No, that does not explain to everything. Girl. I have cancer Sun and Moon with Taurus rising.
Evelyn Archer 05:47
So that makes no sense to me. Why you can't make your own food? I don't know either. That also tells me that once you start, it's going to be Little House on the Prairie at your house to
Lucy Neptune 05:56
probably I definitely have cancer. I was psychological blocks that I died in the kitchen but no more. No more.
Evelyn Archer 06:03
But yes, I made a lovely vegetable stew. That's wonderful. I revived some stale focaccia bread from Whole Foods cat in the back of the chair. Irene is extremely unhappy because my husband is in the other room doing his thing. And the door is closed, which is unacceptable. And so she is you cannot get up there. From here. I see you doing the math. I see. You're doing geometry.
Lucy Neptune 06:29
Trent is plotting the arc trajectory. To get on top. It's not good.
Evelyn Archer 06:34
She's literally the worst. I love her. But we are actually here today to talk about one Spirited Away
Lucy Neptune 06:42
we're here for Miyazaki
Evelyn Archer 06:44
magic Spirited Away The Miyazaki movie. Get my notes. Spirited Away. 2001 Hi. Hayao Miyazaki film. I know you know it. Everybody knows that. If you haven't ever seen it, or I've never heard of it, turn this podcast off and go get the DVD out of the library and watch it. I mean, why are you listening to this and not watching spear right? It is probably isn't my favorite. Maybe might be my favorite Kiki though Kiki's Delivery Service has a special place. Yes, but this is 2001 Miyazaki picture where a young girl named Chihiro passes from this world into the next and ends up at a hotsprings bathhouse resort for the spirits run by Yubaba, the witch. And Yubaba steals her name and turns her name to Sen, which means 1000 She makes her number. And I mean, there is a plot about her trying to get her name back and freeing tillable plot river spirit but
Lucy Neptune 07:51
she's got to free her parents.
Evelyn Archer 07:54
Yeah, so we forget about it. Like I don't care about them. In this.
Lucy Neptune 07:58
I'm not. I'm not attached to them, but I am attached to her and her determination to figure that out and along the way she figures out several other things.
Evelyn Archer 08:11
Yes, like I could literally like they could have thought the whole plotline would not have cared like all I care about is Chihiro and No-Face having tea at Zeniba's house. That's all I care. So I care about but the spa is run by the terrifying Yubaba. And there's also her is she equally evil? Maybe not. Twin sisters and Zeniba who says we are identical twins, but exact opposites.
Lucy Neptune 08:40
And the one of the first thing I remember watching this for the first time, and I was I felt like to hear because I was like I am disoriented. I am not clear on what this world is what you know, because I was not as familiar with Japanese culture. I think when I first saw it and
Evelyn Archer 08:52
I'm also maybe not as familiar with fantasy in general.
Lucy Neptune 08:56
Right? Because like, the thing that struck me is like Yubaba is drawn in she is probably the same height as to hero but her proportions are Yes, her head is probably four times the size. Yeah, her
Evelyn Archer 09:09
head is twice four times the size of a person. Right? And her body is kind of regular body like shaped.
Lucy Neptune 09:17
Right. She's short, but she's big and powerful. And yeah,
Evelyn Archer 09:21
but it's all her head. It's it is it's disorienting,
Lucy Neptune 09:26
right? She was like, What is this world? And what are all these little blobby spirits coming through? Are they Muppets? Like what like I was trying to like figure it out. So I kind of have to watch it once and be like, oh, and now when I watch it again, I'm like,
Evelyn Archer 09:38
yeah, yeah, I can imagine if you're not if you're an inexperienced fantasy consumer. Yes. You're like wait, none of this is real. What is happening right what is and of course, like, unlike yeh none of its real. I'm right in no time right at home. But what I was really faced with with the This was what struck me this time, especially since we spent last week talking about Baba Yaga. I was struck by Yubaba. But all but really this kind of parallel duality of you Baba and Zeniba and her twin sister who doesn't really show up until like the last third of the film, like you don't even really know that she's there for until the last third. And I was thinking about the Greek God Janus, the two faced God.
And in fact, the the tarot card that I've pulled for us for today is The Lovers. Tell us about the lovers, the lovers, I one of the reasons I picked it. And this is actually from the everyday witch collection. That's a very, it's very whimsical and cute. It is. It's the card associated with Gemini, the twins, it is about two things coming together and maybe breaking apart. Is it about collaboration? Is it about mirroring? Is it about that kind of thing. And so that's actually just the lovers is what came to mind as I was thinking about you Yubaba and Zeniba? And I mean, are they they're twins. I mean, canonically in the script, they're twins, but there's also something like they're the two faces of the same thing like, which is what made me think of Janus, which is what made me think of the levers. And what's interesting to me is that Janus, the two faced God who can look forwards and backwards at the same time, is the god of doorways and gates. And that's very much what she hero
Lucy Neptune 11:46
is, is there's right there's like literal doorways and gates and there's so
Evelyn Archer 11:50
many literal but literally like between these two figures, those of Yubaba and Zeniba to hero has to pass through them to get to the other side of the story. And the thing is, Zuniba even seems threatening at first like remember, she comes in and fucking tears up the Yubaba’s office.
Irene just is knocking stuff over. She is so mad about that closed doors. She cannot get over it. She's about to get Yep, she's just taking books off the shelf right now. She's just taking them down.
Lucy Neptune 12:20
She's extremely pissed off library. She
Evelyn Archer 12:23
is pissed off now. She's going to get there another one. There we go.
Lucy Neptune 12:27
This is amazing. My cat's not half as clever.
Evelyn Archer 12:31
She’s extremely clever. It's kind of a nightmare. But what I was going to say like even Zeniba seems threatening At first she tears up Yubaba’s office and promises to rip sense mouth out if she says anything about it. So at first you're like, Oh my God. Is she just as right? The on first viewing? I thought that was you Baba. Oh, of course. Like it's they're literally identical. But I think a lot about my favorite part of this movie. My favorite part of this movie. The absolute best part of the movie is from the moment Chihiro and No-Face, the bird and the baby get on the train to the swamp to go see Zeniba until they get back to the bathhouse. That whole section is unbelievable. And you had some thoughts about no face as well. So that would kind of dovetail nicely into my thing here.
Lucy Neptune 13:34
Let me actually start with Chihiro. Okay, let's start with Chihiro. I was researching and I found somewhere that says her full name Chihiro means 1000 searches. And I was thinking of her as a detective in this story.
Evelyn Archer 13:50
Yeah, because I've got I've got that later on. Yeah, because she
Lucy Neptune 13:54
needs to figure out some shit so she can get back to her human world and save her parents. That's the inciting
Evelyn Archer 14:02
well, not just that, like that's that. That is but there's also like a heist recovery at work here. There's a heist, because we're after… Zeniba’s seal has been stolen. Right? And
Lucy Neptune 14:21
and it's Enchi saves Haku because something is poisoning him and she doesn't quite know what and he's writhing and sick and dying and then she figures it out and gets she feeds the magic herb from the stink spirit or the river spirit yep to Haku he gets better he horks up the seal she solves that she solves No-Face’s issue. Yeah. And she sticks to her code. She sticks to her code you freeze the baby she restores social order like Chihiro Detective which is so interesting because I think it shows like these were perhaps drawn to detective stories as well because it has to do With survival, it has to do with Okay,
Evelyn Archer 15:02
well, and for me also like besides not necessarily about survival, because you can have a story that's about survival and I’m not interested, but it's about a question. It's about a question that needs answering. What happened with the seal? How do I get my parents to not be pigs anymore? How do I get myself out of this situation? These are puzzles in a way for her to solve. And what I was thinking about too, is that Yubaba is the head of this bathhouse right? And she reads to me very much like a Noir movie villain. If you think about that, well appoint those well appointed offices and the realness not CEO realness. No, no, he kind of gave me like she runs that place. She does, but that's not CEO. She's the fat man from Maltese Falcon. Yes, yes. Yes. Yeah. Like the CEO. A CEO. Yeah, it's that's business aspect of business Titan. It's not even about business. It's about power. It's absolutely about power and like, it's, she does care about stuff. And what this actually leads into I know we're probably getting off track here, but what I was thinking about right, is okay, so when Chihiro shows up to the bathhouse, she's not supposed to be there. She's in trouble, right? And Yubaba is like, okay, I can make you disappear into oblivion. Or, I can put you to work. And she becomes Sen, she takes her name in Chihiro means 1000 searches. Sen means 1000.
So takes her name from her replacing her with a number don't any don't anybody tell you that Miyazaki is not anti capitalist. And the bathhouse itself is a place of labor. They don't really get breaks. They sleep in these dormitories all making Yubaba rich. And they don't see any of that money. They don't see any of that back which is probably why when No-Face the a black ghost. Is he a ghost with a creepy mask on his head and also a mouth and sometimes arms? You if you haven't seen the movie? You don't know. But just Google it. It is.
Lucy Neptune 17:35
No, I love you. I love No,
Evelyn Archer 17:39
I love No-Face so much. I love how No-Face is voiced. And the greed that I mean there's one way to say to call it greed of the people who are working in the spa. He's giving away gold and everybody gets really really excited that no-face is giving away gold because they don't see it from freaking Yubaba do they know they don't. And one day, I'm gonna save up enough money on a train ticket and get out of here. I'm like, my god, you might as well have been Satine from Moulin Rouge. Like, and when he's giving away this gold. He's, he seems to me to take on the qualities of the people around him. When he's in the bath house, among these, the folks in there who want tips in a place of greed. He's greedy. And then you get him out of that bath house out at Zeniba’s house. And suddenly he's at the spinning wheel drinking a cup of tea and he's fine.
Lucy Neptune 18:42
eating properly with a foreign name properly with a fork.
Evelyn Archer 18:45
And there's this moment on the train I love it so much. It's so small it's such a small moment. Chihiro and No-Face are sitting on the train and Chihiro goes, “Now sit down. Behave yourself.” “Okay.” Then he just he quiets down like it's just
Lucy Neptune 19:03
lovely. Last I think she's a parallel character to to hero because he's the, I think the first spirit to really see her on the bridge. I think he sees her before she lets her breath out because she says hold your breath. And she's holding it and they run into the frog. But he stops and watches her go by and he's kind of see through himself in a way so I feel like he's some kind of limbo lost character. and he's looking where do I attach myself? So he's drawn to her. And she she bows and he bows Yeah. Then she lets him in and then he's wandering around and he's drawn Oh, I'll fit in this way. I'll fit in this way. So I think you're right. Yeah, that is like oh on these characteristics. Okay, I'll just Okay, I'll do it for you. Right and then they call him the monster you know? Yeah. And no need to run him out of town. But it's it's not.
Evelyn Archer 19:51
It's not it's more complex in that he's not the monster. No.
Lucy Neptune 19:56
Sticks to her code or personal code because he offers her Oh, I like Here's the most gold. Yeah. And she just shakes her head. No. And, you know, I forget how she precisely just wanted to help it. Right? And so she goes in and he follows her and you know, he embarks on stuff and like, runs after her because he trusts her the most and yet they have that beautiful train ride,
20:18
beautiful train ride and then dumdum baby mouse jumped on
Lucy Neptune 20:25
this like cuckoo bananas, kind of comic relief, you know, bumbling idiot, which is just my cup of tea. Oh, right. You know, in the middle of, you know, kind of scary town like all sounds like doo doo doo doo doo doo.
Evelyn Archer 20:38
See for me, Bo, the giant baby is extremely distressing. Like that is a distressing image for me. And it's very much to me that is what Yubaba has made.
Lucy Neptune 20:54
Oh, yeah. Well, it looks like any other rich person's privileged kid. Yeah, way like, Yeah, I'm completely inept. And I get whatever I want. And then this says, I am I'm scared because I've been told this is the world right? You know, you can't go
Evelyn Archer 21:09
out there. It's dangerous. I get what the line is. But he has a bunch of sticks. Like, oh, you can't Yeah, you can't go out there. You'll get sick. That's right. And I'm like, Oh, my God. Yubaba has convinced him that anything outside this room can kill him. right because
Lucy Neptune 21:21
she She's scared. She wants to keep him Yeah, and greedy. And with that as well of him, all her all his love for her all for
Evelyn Archer 21:29
herself for herself. And then he gets shrunk down. And the little bird. I love the little Dum Dum bird. So great. And I love the hopping lamp. beautiful. The hopping leaf is beautiful. But for me the contrast of place like we were just talking about how Yubaba gives off this vibe of like fat man from the fat man from the Maltese Falcon with these beautifully appointed, you know, offices. And then you get to Zeniba’s, which is like just a little hut. And it's tidy, and it's quiet. And a spinning wheel. She has a spinning wheel for God's sake, it turns out that no face is very good at spinning and knitting. Now all of a sudden, he can do something.
Lucy Neptune 22:13
He belongs. He has a role.
Evelyn Archer 22:14
well, he has a role and also like, okay, so like, it turns out, at Zeniba’s house. He has an ability to do quiet things. And so he does these quiet things. Zeniba’s is not a place you go to labor, even though there is work to do there. It's a place you go to heal. And he's not healed enough yet. He doesn't leave that swamp house. Zeniba says you know, I, I forget how she puts it. But I think it would be best if you if no face stayed with me for a while. Like he's got. We've got some work to do. We've got some work to do. And what I think is interesting is that the bathhouse is a place of labor, right? Where you're laboring to make Yubaba rich. But Zeniba’s is also a place of labor, somebody has to make that cake doing spinning is not it's not not work, you know. But that's not the labor to make someone wealthy. That's the work of living.
Lucy Neptune 23:12
and community. Yeah. And they will both benefit from that. And it
Evelyn Archer 23:17
is though it is how you make your life better. Like that's the work of making your life. That's what cooking is. It's the work of making your life better. That's what the fermentations are about. That's what my homemade yogurt is about. And I think that the tea brewing and the knitting, it's all and it's so much maintenance as opposed to service. Right? And it's not that the movie is saying that that work is bad. But what are you working for? What what are you actually making? And for me,
Lucy Neptune 23:56
I'm what are your structures of your businesses? Like? Yeah, there won't be a business but what are your structures? What our Yeah,
Evelyn Archer 24:02
and what are you? What are you supporting? And at Zeniba’s this house, you're supporting yourself and each other. Because we need yarn because we need mittens because it gets cold and somebody's got to brew the tea make cakes and you know, it's honestly if I have to go anywhere to heal. I want to go to Zeniba’s. Yeah, I would want to go to sneakers, although I would not might be a guest at that bathhouse. Well, personally, well, I've been talking a lot here.
Lucy Neptune 24:37
So I'm thinking about other things that I really love. I really love the soot sprites. And I now refer to my desk bunnies at home as sprites are delightful. I really loved I loved the mystery of the characters. I love that you don't understand them right off the bat and you have I have to take the journey. And I've, and to some extent, that's somewhat true in a lot of Western movies, but not necessarily always, a lot of times, you know, you can get this picture of somebody and you got most of the picture but like no face for example, I'm like, What is this guy's story
Evelyn Archer 25:15
now that also remember that that is probably a facet of being the western audience of this movie. Yes. Like it's also possible that for Japanese audience going in, they recognize every single one of them, right? Yes. So I don't know if that's on purpose.
Lucy Neptune 25:31
Right. But the thing I love I guess is that no face is not cast out by Chihiro. No, and she's like, okay, yeah, you want to come to on the train? Okay. Come on, and sit down and behave yourself. And he he's sit down. Yeah. And he's and then you you learn something you find something and I'm thinking about Howl’s Moving Castle you know, the weight of the waist? Is she turns into a little lady. Oh, babby granny by the fire. Yeah. You know, completely
Evelyn Archer 26:02
well, that's definitely like a recurring thing in Miyazaki. Like, I remember when I first started watching the soccer pictures, like, especially watching. Even Spirited Away, I think spirit away has the most steaks of any of the plots, but like, they're not plot centric. Like, it could have been any story it wouldn't have mattered. And you think that there's going to be something truly dark and terrible. And who you think is a bad guy is not necessarily a true bad guy, even Yubaba. Right is not truly a bad guy like a villain. The way that the way that a western audience as a western audience member, I'm looking for a villain. I'm looking for Voldemort. I'm looking for Darth Vader. And this that doesn't exist. They're just people who are maybe not acting under their best not being their best selves, necessarily, but that's, but that's definitely something that you see in a lot of Miyazaki pictures is that villain? Hero? Ah, I think he just really rejects that dichotomy. Yeah. And instead, you have like a character like Chihiro that you are following through solving this mystery and solving these puzzles.
Lucy Neptune 27:21
And the path is not, you know, the Aristotelian structure. It's more. I love the pathways of his stories, because they feel like I guess how I'm remembering as a kid, when you had a lot more free time in your day, and you'd kind of like, do a thing and then you'd like go, well, I'll go upstairs now. But like on your way upstairs, you might do two other things and make up a song and then you're upstairs, you know, like, to noodle around.
Evelyn Archer 27:47
There is a thing in that in Japanese story structure. I don't necessarily think that the Miyazaki stories cohere to it necessarily, but I grow has it, but I can definitely see. It's called Kishotenketsu. Do you know the structure? Do you? Are you familiar with that?
Lucy Neptune 28:06
I know, You've told me it before. But let's talk about it. It's
Evelyn Archer 28:09
a five act structure. This, this blew my mind, y'all you have to understand. I was so deep in the hip pocket of Aristotelian narrative structure. I literally thought it was like a law of physics like gravity. Until it's probably my 30s. And one. It turns out that only Western people do that like only like American like white people do that. And it's for my money. It's so boring. Japanese stories are often five act instead of three act. And it's Ki Sho Ten. Ketsu. Keep show I'm getting it mixed up. But it's, it's a setup.
Lucy Neptune 28:58
Can you five syllables? Yeah. Tetsu
Evelyn Archer 29:01
is one word, though. Oh, okay. Anyway, there's a setup. There's the development of that setup. And then that it's the 10. That's very hard to translate. It gets translated as turn or twist. And that's not really what it is. It's like, you have a thing. And then they talk about that thing. And then they talk about something else entirely. It doesn't have anything to do with afford you're like, wait, what? And then the last thing reveals how this and the first two are related. And it's really really beautiful. And it feels I don't know, even though I'm a Western person that feels very both intriguing and natural at the same time, but you're you're right that he is absolutely this is definitely non Aristotelian, like it's that whole gross coloniser thing of put your character in a tree and throw rocks at it
Lucy Neptune 30:05
right and drive to the end of the ride NO to NO adults. Oh, yeah,
Evelyn Archer 30:09
conflict on every page bite me I'm so bored.
Lucy Neptune 30:13
I love that there are usually in the movies, I've watched their everyday tasks yes presented and as worthy of kind of being on screen. Yes, I often notice after watching a movie that Oh, I noticed my own bare feet on the wood floor, or I take time with my dishes. And yes, it's held in there's something so grounding about it
Evelyn Archer 30:38
absolutely. And absolutely an elevation of the domestic in a way that I feel very connected to, very connected to.
Lucy Neptune 30:48
And I was learning as I was reading about this to get ready for tonight, the concept of Ma,
30:54
and we talk about Ma Ma
Lucy Neptune 30:57
as I have it, whereas here is negative space, an absence of movement. And so in a picture, it would literally be negative space, you know, compared to the lines drawn to create the image, but the presence of it creates balance, it creates breathing room and creates, you know, contemplation space, it's it's really really wonderful. And,
Evelyn Archer 31:22
and to me very, like revolutionary, like the moments of Ma. Okay, in, and I'm probably misusing this term, the way that I'm thinking about it, but this is just my Western mind, kind of translating it into what I can understand are these moments where nothing happens, I’ve seen some beautiful anime, where for full 90 seconds, you're watch a cherry blossom, fall to the ground, or you'll watch drops of rain on a windowpane. I'm trying to remember some short, animated movie that I recently saw, that had one of those very strange long titles. And it had something and it was about two people that met in the park only on days when it rained. And it was absolutely beautiful. I'll put a link to in the show notes. And I'll send it to you because it's on Netflix wonderful. But those moments of Ma are again, I know I'm speaking Bolshevik. They're anti-capitalist man. Like, they're not going to fill your screen up with stuff, they're going to let you breathe, they're going to let you do nothing for a minute. And it's such a relief.
Lucy Neptune 32:45
I feel I associate them with I think the younger, the children that are often the protagonist of the movies of the Miyazaki movies, because there's, to me, it feels like just that childhood, when you had time, and you just kind of followed your nose, you didn't feel like oh, here's my syllabus, here's my task, like, sure. You're just doo-doo-doodle-doo, you're doing your thing. And there's something just lovely about them really, really nice. The other thing I noticed in Spirited Away, when they're going through the empty kind of train station, I guess in the beginning, when wishes with their parents, they're walking through you see, Howl’s symbol?
Evelyn Archer 33:30
Did you see I did not notice there is
Lucy Neptune 33:32
a circle up high up on the wall. And it has, you know, across across the X in the circle, it has four colors. And it's just like Howl’s symbol that dials into the different places? Oh, he's
Evelyn Archer 33:45
like his doorknob. Yeah.
Lucy Neptune 33:47
And so now, this may be a stretch on my part, this might be just my association versus what Misaki actually meant by it, and I'll have to see if I can find it more.
But it makes me think about, again, I'm always I'm always I've left the church years ago, but I still fight it every day. You know, but I remember reading about so you know, I grew up Catholic and you learn about the Trinity right Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and that this is the like the Triune God blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then sometime in grad school, I started reading something about Carl Jung. And he proposed, he said that is a weak structure that is a weak divine structure and it would be stronger to have a quaternity which would be parent child. Let's say God devil, good evil, build, die, you know, grow, create, like whatever those and then because right now we're in your Trinity. You had to circle your wagons and all three of you are equal to the devil. So that's a weak philosophical construct. And so but if you're all together, then you don't have to be afraid and like your your quote Bad things are part of this part of the normal thing. Like, you know, sometimes you act terribly on a given day, but you're not a terrible person I just heard saying about the villains. Like it's your, your all your
Evelyn Archer 35:12
math make the connection for me between four and what you were talking about
Lucy Neptune 35:17
the quaternity. So is a stronger structure. So, so what I see that were there for months, were
Evelyn Archer 35:26
there four colors, there's four colors, okay?
Lucy Neptune 35:29
So how doorknobs symbol thing?
Evelyn Archer 35:31
I didn't remember what
Lucy Neptune 35:32
it was for? Yes. Okay. Yes, it's like red, blue and green and black. But that also
Evelyn Archer 35:37
just coming at it from a different non Catholic perspective. That's north, south, east, west. That's fire water, earth and air. Right. That's that balance. That's a natural, balanced thing. Like, right. That's it non. Non Western?
Lucy Neptune 35:58
Yeah, yeah. And it's great. Yeah. It's really, really great. And it honors so many things that, you know,
Evelyn Archer 36:05
I never noticed. Yeah, I never I'm gonna have to go back and look again. I never noticed that. Yeah, that is very cool.
Lucy Neptune 36:11
Yeah. Should we loop over and talk about Howl’s Castle? Save that for another?
Evelyn Archer 36:16
I'm not prepared now. Okay, another day. All right. It's already quarter of eight. Oh, dear. You're gonna go this is why when this when we talked about this for like, Lucy's like, let's do a Miyazaki episode. I'm like, let's pick one at a time. Because we will be here all day, because that's why No, I needed a full hour to talk about Howl in a full hour to talk about Kiki. a full hour full hour. Yes. But that's what I have
Lucy Neptune 36:46
to say how much we love Kamaji. I love Kamaji Boilermaker and all his arms and his glasses. You
Evelyn Archer 36:52
know, who was voicing him? Right?
Lucy Neptune 36:54
I didn't know you know, I looked it up and found out but you know, I thought it was I thought it was willing to vote because it has this kind of bite to its voice.
Evelyn Archer 37:00
It does. It does. But if I remember right, it's David Ogden Stiers. It is Charles Emerson Winchester for mash board.
Lucy Neptune 37:07
And Cogsworth from Beauty and the Beast, the Disney version.
Evelyn Archer 37:13
That is not that is not something that I have in my consciousness.
Lucy Neptune 37:17
Actually, I don't normally have a Disney reference in my conscious, but for some reason I remember him. I've literally
Evelyn Archer 37:22
never seen it.
Lucy Neptune 37:24
Oh, okay. Yeah, he does a really nice job.
Evelyn Archer 37:26
I bet. I bet. I bet. I bet he's absolutely great. But I think it's interesting that we both made detective connections in different ways that you made the Chihiro as Detective connection, and I made the Yubaba as long as noir baddie like, there's so much there. But even the noir baddie is not, you know, he's not the end all be all evil of existence. He's just kind of a shitty dude who’s trying to get by, you know. But that's, that's what we have for Spirited Away. We're going to transition into Dick the week. And Lucy has our dick of the week this week,
Lucy Neptune 38:06
Dick of the week. So this is one of my favorite segments. So taking the week. I mean, there's always a bunch of crap going on out there. But today I had the special honor of dismantling, helping to quiet or dismantle an old dick. And so I work for an organization. Years and years and years ago, there was a president of our association and very good at his discipline. But it has been recorded in many ways over time that he was rather racist and rather sexist saying you shouldn't be able to take these classes. And this is for men only. And you can take the class but you're going to start with a C and go down from there. And so fuck that guy. Right? And
Evelyn Archer 38:52
shaming him.
Lucy Neptune 38:53
I don't think we need to do I mean disease so bad enough. So to the extent that UT Austin actually took his name off buildings, which I found pretty significant,
Evelyn Archer 39:04
but what I think is also significant is the line that you got to write. I did let's hear it because
Lucy Neptune 39:09
our current executive directors like let's get something up there on the website. I was like, how about this? I said, and I'm not gonna say where I work because I don't want people finally there. This organization recognizes and abjures this guy's racist views and behaviors period
Evelyn Archer 39:27
Abjure.
Lucy Neptune 39:28
that is, I'm bringing up abjure. Abjure is just the kind of equivalent of, you know,
Evelyn Archer 39:37
rebuke like that. Yeah, that's the southern term. Like when you see something that is horrific, like, even if it's something it can be something religious, or it can be somebody's outfit. I've heard this before. Oh, girl. I rebuke that. I rebuke it. I rebuke me. I repeat the
Lucy Neptune 39:57
Old Testament. It's a little old testament. Yeah, yeah. So I love it. We love it. I have to. I wrote the sentence I got to put it on put in the HTML and
Evelyn Archer 40:05
that is our dick of the
Lucy Neptune 40:09
Week. The week is dead. Well, I have
Evelyn Archer 40:12
the witch of the week. Tell us and our witch of the Week. Once again, it's from a book I'm reading is Adrienne Maree Brown. Adrienne Maree Brown at the name sensor really? Fantastic. I'm reading her book right now and this is all I'm going to say. Okay. Adrienne Maree Brown wrote a book called Emergent Strategies. It's a nonfiction book, inspired by Octavia Butler's explorations of our human relationship to change, emergent strategy is radical self-help society help and planet help designed to shape the future that we want to live? It is it has me shooketh as the children say, I am shooketh by this book. Wow. And she is a social justice activist. And this is about a different way of activism a different way of leading a different way of community organizing a different way of of being in the world and it is based on Octavia Butler's right ideas of community it's also emergence is a biology term for how mushrooms communicate and like it is. I haven't finished it yet. I literally just start just read the introduction and my head exploded. Okay, like so Adrienne Maree Brown, you can find her on Instagram. You can find her everywhere. She is absolutely spectacular. And she is definitely my witch of the week. Awesome. All right. Is that show?
Lucy Neptune 41:52
I think so. All right, that was good.
Evelyn Archer 41:56
All right. That's it for the show folks
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Witches and Dicks is a Harlow Gold Production with NancyLu Studios. To any extent that it was written, it was written by Lucy Neptune and Evelyn Archer. That's me. You can find Lucy on Instagram at @LucyNeptuneWND. You can find me on Twitter and Instagram @evelynarches. You can book a Tarot reading with me at askevelynarcher.com and you can buy my books, The Strange Files of Modesty Brown, on Amazon and Smashwords.
Our audio engineer is Nancy Lu herself. Our logo was created by Alex Zapata. Music by pretty sleepy on Pixabay. Transcript by otter AI. Special thanks to Allan Lewis for IT and moral support. This podcast brought to you by The Fool card, public libraries and too many candles.